Episode #71: Do you always have to plan out a book? With Kim Ventrella
Welcome back! On today’s episode, Grace Lin and Kim Ventrella answer this kid question; Do you always have to plan out a book?
TRANSCRIPTS:
Grace Lin: Hello, I'm Grace Lin, children's book author and illustrator of many books, including the middle grade novel, When the Sea Turned to Silver, and the picture book, A Big Mooncake for Little Star. Today, I'm here with Kim Ventrella, the author of the novels, The Secret Life of Sam, and Hello, Future Me. Hi Kim.
Kim Ventrella: Hi Grace. Thanks so much for having me.
Grace Lin: Thanks for being here. Are you ready for today's kid question?
Kim Ventrella: I don't know, I'm a little scared, but I think I'm ready.
Grace Lin: Okay, good. Today's question is from a person named Bonnie and they ask:
Bonnie: My question is, do you always have to plan out a book?
Grace Lin: My question is, do you always have to plan out a book?
Kim Ventrella: Oh, Bonnie. That is a really excellent question. And I will say that you do not always have to plan out a book and I have... Every book of mine has been different. So I have done books like my first book, Skeleton Tree, where I did not plan it out ahead of time at all. I just asked myself one what if question, and that was, "What if this boy went outside and he discovered a finger bone and it started growing out of the grass like a tree, what would happen next?" And so every day when I sat down to write and I wrote this all in my dog's dog bed, by the way, but that's another story. So every day when I sat down, I would just say, "Okay, how can I continue to answer that question?" And I would really just go from there. Now with other books, I have done more planning. It really depends on the type of book you're writing. For me, if I do plan it out ahead of time, I really focus on the character and I ask myself two big questions.
Kim Ventrella: What does the character want? And that's probably going to tell me all of the actions that they do. Like what actions do they do to try to get the thing that they want. And I make it really hard for them. So they have to overcome all kinds of obstacles. And then what does the character need? And that has to do with their emotions and stuff that's going on inside that they may not be aware of. So when you're planning that out, you want to think, how is the character going to change by the end of the book, and what type of events did they have to go through in order to change from the person they are in the beginning to the person that you think they're going to be in the end. So when I do planning for my book, that's the type of planning that I do, but you do not have to plan. You can also just totally wing it.
Grace Lin: Yes. I think the technical term for people who don't plan is pantster, because the idea is that they're flying by the seat of their pants. And then the people who do plan, I think they're called plotters because they plot things out. So in general, do you consider yourself a pantster or a plotter?
Kim Ventrella: I would say if I had to pick, I consider myself a pantster because even when I do sort of plan it out and I like to... I know broad things, like I know how I want the character to change and sort of what transformation I want them to go through, but I don't know how they're going to get there, and even if I plot it out ahead of time, and I say, "Here's how they might get there," when I sit down to write it, it is almost always a completely different path that they take. So I think I'm fundamentally a pantster, but on some projects I will do a little more plotting.
Kim Ventrella: So if I'm working on something that's more of high fantasy type style, most of the stuff I do is contemporary modern day with fantasy elements, but if I'm working on something that's more epic fantasy or mystery, I will do more plotting because that usually requires just you have to set clues in just the right place and you have to build the world in just the right way. So I will consider what type of book am I writing as well.
Grace Lin: That's true. I think I am more of a plotter. I definitely need to know three things before I start writing. And one is the beginning scene, a scene somewhere in the middle, but I always have to know that end scene. I have to know what's going to happen at the very end. So I always have someplace to write to. And very often I do write outlines with scenes, like chapter one, this is what's going to happen. Chapter two, this is what's going to happen. Chapter three, this is what going to happen.
Grace Lin: But I do have a bit of a pantster in me too, because very often I do, similar to what you said, is I start with this really great plotting out of every scene. But then when I start writing, all of a sudden, I veer off of that very quickly and I'll go in different directions, but I always do eventually go towards that ending though. Like that ending is kind of like the lighthouse in the distance. So that's how I do mine. So it's mostly plotting, but a lot of pantster-ing thrown in.
Kim Ventrella: Yeah. That's a beautiful way to think about it [inaudible 00:05:05] the light house in the distance. I totally agree. I think it's all the middle. It's how you get there is the part that changes for me, but I do usually have an idea of where I want to get to. So I think we're very similar.
Grace Lin: Yeah. But I know many authors who don't even know what the ending is going to be and they just [crosstalk 00:05:36].
Kim Ventrella: Oh wow.
Grace Lin: So I think it just shows that there's not one way to write a book and there's not one thing you always have to do to write a book either.
Kim Ventrella: Oh yeah. There's no right way. There's no wrong way. You just have to find what process works for you. And that's what I've really learned is like, don't compare yourself how other people write and think like, "Oh, but this one person wrote it that way and if I'm not doing it that way, it's wrong." It's not wrong. Just find your style.
Grace Lin: That's true. So I do have to say to Bonnie who asked the question that to give planning out the book a shot. Don't just because think like, "Oh, I don't like to plan out my book. I'm just going to write." Try planning it out first. And just try it. You might find out that you actually really, really like it after all.
Kim Ventrella: Yes, absolutely.
Grace Lin: Definitely give plotting a chance. And then when you find it doesn't work for you, then give it up.
Kim Ventrella: Yeah. You have to try it all the different styles, I think, to figure out what works for you. And I'm mostly going to write the song lyrics now to that give plotting a chance.
Grace Lin: That would be a great song.
Kim Ventrella: A good one. Yeah.
Grace Lin: We could have it as part of our theme music.
Kim Ventrella: Yeah, absolutely.
Grace Lin: All right well thank you so much, Kim, for answering this question and thank you Bonnie for asking this question as well.
Kim Ventrella: Thank you so much. Thanks Grace and Bonnie.
Grace Lin: Bye.
Kim Ventrella: Bye.
Today’s BOOK REVIEW comes from Mackenzie! She’s reviewing the book, A Cat Story By Ursula Murray Husted:
The book I would like to talk about is A Cat Story by Ursula Murray Husted. This book is about a cat named Cilla’s adventure with her friend Betto. They are homeless cats living in Malta. Life is hard because they have to steal food and keep getting kicked out of houses. What they really want is to find a place to call home. When they hear from an old cat about a place called the quiet garden, where all cats are welcome and people are nice they set off to find it. They travel by ship and get washed out to sea and are saved by a fisherwoman and her dog who takes them to the island called Gozo. Once there they keep looking for the garden. In the end, they find out that they only really need each other. They learn that friendship is great and can get you past any challenges.
I like this book because it is a graphic novel and it is written from the cat’s perspective. I also liked the way the author included beautiful pictures from different art styles when the cats told stories. I would recommend this book to people who like stories about animals, or enjoy exciting adventures.
Thank you MacKenzie!
More about today’s authors:
KIM VENTRELLA is the author of The Secret Life of Sam (Fall 2020, HarperCollins), Hello, Future Me (Aug. 2020, Scholastic), Bone Hollow and Skeleton Tree. Her works explore difficult topics with big doses of humor, whimsy and hope. Kim has held a variety of interesting jobs, including children’s librarian, scare actor, Peace Corps volunteer, French instructor and overnight staff person at a women’s shelter, but her favorite job title is author. She lives in Oklahoma City with her dog and co-writer, Hera. For the latest updates, follow Kim on Twitter and Instagram.
Grace Lin, a NY Times bestselling author/ illustrator, won the Newbery Honor for Where the Mountain Meets the Moon and her picture book, A Big Mooncake for Little Star, was awarded the Caldecott Honor. Grace is an occasional commentator for New England Public Radio , a video essayist for PBS NewsHour (here & here), and the speaker of the popular TEDx talk, The Windows and Mirrors of Your Child’s Bookshelf. She is the co-host of the podcast Book Friends Forever, a kidlit podcast about friendship and publishing (geared for adults). Find her facebook, instagram , twitter ( @pacylin) or sign up for her author newsletter HERE.
Special thanks to the High Five Books & Art Always Bookstore, Ms. Carleton’s 2nd grade class at Jackson Street School for their help with our kid questions and reviews.
