Episode #70: What illustration took you the longest to make? -With Floyd Cooper

Welcome back! On today’s Kids Ask Authors episode, authors Grace Lin and Floyd Cooper answer the kid question, “What illustration took you the longest to make?”

TRANSCRIPTS:

Grace Lin: Hello. I'm Grace Lin, children's book author and illustrator of many books, including the middle grade novel, When the Sea Turned to Silver and the picture book, A Big Mooncake for Little Star. Today, I am here with Floyd Cooper, the author and illustrator of Max and the Tag-Along Moon, the illustrator of A Ride to Remember written by Sharon Langley and Amy Nathan, as well as the illustrator of A Dance Like Starlight written by Kristy Dempsey. Hi Floyd.

Floyd Cooper: Hey, how's it going? How are you?

Grace Lin: Good. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Floyd Cooper: Oh, it's so fun to be here. Thank you.

Grace Lin: Okay. Are you ready for today's kid questions?

Floyd Cooper: I am ready.

Grace Lin: All right. Today's kid question is from a person named Julie. And they ask...

Julie: What illustration took you longest to make?

Grace Lin: What illustration of yours took the longest to make and why?

Floyd Cooper: Wow, that's a great question. Julie, you know how to ask them, my friend. You know how to ask them. Well, the longest illustration for me to complete was part of a book that took me five years to complete. It was a history book on early history, and a lot of professors were involved and so there was a lot of back and forth. And this book took five years to complete. And I'm sure that my longest to complete illustration is in that book because that book still haunts me to this day. My shortest book, by the way, was my first book, Grandpa's Face. And I did that whole book, the entire book, in four days.

Grace Lin: Whoa.

Floyd Cooper: So the illustration probably took about a day or so to do for that book. Things are a lot different now though.

Grace Lin: Oh, okay. I want to talk about the fast book, but we're going to go back to the long book in a moment. But so how were you able to do a whole book in four days? And how did that come about?

Floyd Cooper: Well, I was young and energetic and I was very desperate to get work. And when this job came along through my agent told me that if I did a good quick job, there could be more work. And so that's all I needed to hear. I was already working fast because I had to pay my rent. And so the faster you work, the quicker you got paid and the more money you can make by moving on to the next book. So I developed a technique that was very quick and it's one that I rely on today using erasers to make art. And it took me about four days to do the actual paintings for the book. And I'm not talking about the meetings or the sketches and all that that preceded the book. Of course, that took a little more time.

Floyd Cooper: But when I was actually working from page one to page 32, was four days to make it. The book was called Grandpa's Face by the way. And when you see it, you'll say, "Oh yeah. He did this in four days." So kind of sloppy and not consistent. And but I'm still here, so I got through it okay.

Grace Lin: I think that's amazing that you painted that. I don't even think my paint would dry.

Floyd Cooper: Yeah. I was working with acrylics and so they dry pretty quick. I used acrylic washes, colors over my erase shakes and it was bada bing, bada boom.

Grace Lin: Wow. Okay. Now let's go to the one that took you the longest. What was the title of the book that took you the longest?

Floyd Cooper: It was called Beginnings, African Beginnings by Jim Haskins. Lothrop, Lee and Shepard was the name of the publisher at the time. They're no longer here. I think it's Macmillan now, I believe. But that book is out of print, but you should be able to find it in certain locations and dustbins and old bookshelves somewhere. But it was a history book about the early beginnings of humans and humanity and early Africa is where they were able to establish that. And so we journey through with illustrations showing how great universities in Timbuktu and other locations throughout Northern Africa and how these empires grew and played a large part in civilization, the advance of civilization throughout history. And so a lot of it was being debated, of course. And so there was a lot of changes. I would do an entire painting and have to change it because this other professor didn't agree with this other professor. So that's why it took so long back and forth. But we got it done. Yeah.

Grace Lin: I could see that. Yeah. So that one took me the longest, mainly because the people of the content and all the technical things that of the content and what they wanted you to show. Do you have a favorite painting of any of your books?

Floyd Cooper: It's usually the book that I'm working on now. And I'm doing a book called Remembrance Day about the very first Memorial Day. And it happened to be in South Carolina. And I have a little boy on the cover with the American flag and he sort of has his eyes closed in a prayer position with this flag draped over his head there, kind of a embrace of the flag because it was a very special day. And I'll let you wait for the book to find out why that is and why it's such an important holiday and how meaningful it is through the eyes of this little boy. And right now it's my favorite piece of art.

Grace Lin: Oh, that sounds so [crosstalk 00:05:39].

Floyd Cooper: It's written by Leah Henderson, by the way. I don't know if you know her. She's like a star now. Yes.

Grace Lin: Oh, yeah. Yes, I do. That's wonderful.

Floyd Cooper: Hopefully she won't mind me sharing. Listen, keep it a secret. Don't tell anyone I told you.

Grace Lin: Do you find it that it is faster for you to illustrate a picture in a book that you've written and illustrated or faster to do an illustration from a book that someone else has written?

Floyd Cooper: That's a great question. Did Julie asked that question, too?

Grace Lin: No, but asking about the longest, I wanted to expand on that because I was just curious.

Floyd Cooper: Maybe you want to ask Julie, what's the quickest question you ever asked? Actually, it doesn't matter too much at this point. I can work both ways because I've been at it for a while. I started, my first book came out in 1988 and I've done about 100 books since then. So I can work with all situations at this point. But I will say that I prefer not having to try to figure out some things sometimes with an author, exactly what they mean. And so that can speed things up a little bit, because I know exactly what I mean with the text. And so I know exactly how to nail it down and illustrate the perfect page turn. I don't want to get too technical with you guys, but making books has to do with the flow and how it connects with the words and how each page turns.

Floyd Cooper: I don't know if you, when you're reading a book, do you actually pay attention to where the page turns and how the story is braced? Because that page turn is a pause in the narrative. And it's very important that you get through that page turn. Because I have some friends who read books and when they have to turn the page, they'll put the book down, connection is broken. So you want to try to keep that flow, the continuity and all that going really well. And it's very crucial to do that. And I find it's much easier when I have my own text to do that with.

Grace Lin: Yeah, I agree because I also write and illustrate my own books and occasionally I illustrate other people's books. But I do find it's a lot easier to write and illustrate my own. The illustrations just come so much more, it flows so much more easily because you know what you want it to look like. Whereas when somebody else writes it, it's still really fun. And it's actually more challenging in a way. So in some ways it's [inaudible 00:08:17] because it makes you grow. But in terms of ease, I think illustrating your own work [crosstalk 00:08:23].

Floyd Cooper: That's amazing. Grace, I didn't realize that. I thought you did all of your... Wrote your own books and illustrated them after. I have to go back and look again. That is amazing.

Grace Lin: Well, I haven't illustrated anybody else's work in a long time just because I'm backed up. But mainly when I do, the difference is really, I really do enjoy writing and illustrating my own a little bit more.

Floyd Cooper: I wanted to ask you a question real quick then since we both share that, working on someone else's books. Because what I do is I have a habit of having to get a new manuscript and I to read it so many times. I'll read it five times in front of the mailman. Then I'll come in and sit down and read it five more times, go upstairs and read it five more times when I'm ready to work. Go downstairs, have a piece of toast, come back up, pick the story up and read it one more time. One more time. So it's a lot of reading. To take ownership of the words, I have to really have them ingrained and that doesn't happen when you write your own story. So all that reading over and over. But you probably get it right away. You probably don't have to read as much as I do to [crosstalk 00:09:29] get it.

Grace Lin: No, I do have to read it, but what I have to do when it's somebody else's... I notice when I'm writing it myself, I can kind of sense where I want the pause to be. And so I don't really need to worry about it as much. But when it's somebody else's, I find that I take their story and I cut it up and I cut it up and I put it in the 32 pages and then I'll read it that way. That's no, that doesn't work and I'll have to reprint it out again and re-cut it up again and cut it and I will do that six or seven times until I have it cut up the way that I think fits best.

Floyd Cooper: I see that. I can really see that. Thank you, Grace. I'm going to have to give that a try. That sounds wonderful. That is wonderful.

Grace Lin: So that's what I find so interesting. But that's why I like writing because when you write it, you know where you're going to put the page turn.

Floyd Cooper: You can cut down a little bit on the [crosstalk 00:00:10:26].

Grace Lin: A little time. So honestly, when you said four days to do a book, I was in awe. The reason why I haven't illustrated anybody else's book in a long time is because it takes me so long just to do my own book. It took me so long.

Floyd Cooper: Yeah. Well, I wouldn't advise it. Don't do it in four days. Take the time and do it right. That's one of those do as I say, not as I do kind of things. Yeah.

Grace Lin: Well, thank you so much, Floyd, for answering today's kid question. It was a great answer. And thank you so much, Julie, for asking it.

Today’s BOOK REVIEW is from Kelly and she is reviewing, “Ancestor Approved: Intertribal Stories for Kids edited by Cynthia L. Smith.

The book that I would like to review is Ancestor Approved, edited by Cynthia Leitich Smith. This book is a collection of stories about a powwow, a Native American ceremony involving singing, dancing, and feasting. My favorite story in the book was Rez Dog Rules by Rebecca Roanhorse, because it is about a cute little puppy who wears a shirt that says “Rez Dawg” to help sell T-shirts. I liked this book because it taught me about Native American traditions. Before I read this book, I did not know what a powwow was!

Thank you Kelly!

More about today’s authors:

Floyd Cooper received a Coretta Scott King Award for his illustrations in The Blacker the Berry and a Coretta Scott King Honor for Brown Honey in Broomwheat Tea and I Have Heard of a Land. Born and raised in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Mr. Cooper received a degree in fine arts from the University of Oklahoma and, after graduating, worked as an artist for a major greeting card company. In 1984, he came to New York City to pursue a career as an illustrator of books, and he now lives in Easton, Pennsylvania, with his wife and children.

Grace Lin, a NY Times bestselling author/ illustrator, won the Newbery Honor for Where the Mountain Meets the Moon and her picture book, A Big Mooncake for Little Star, was awarded the Caldecott Honor. Grace is an occasional commentator for New England Public Radio , a video essayist for PBS NewsHour (here & here), and the speaker of the popular TEDx talk, The Windows and Mirrors of Your Child’s Bookshelf. She is the co-host of the podcast Book Friends Forever, a kidlit podcast about friendship and publishing (geared for adults). Find her facebook, instagram , twitter ( @pacylin) or sign up for her author newsletter HERE.

Special thanks to the High Five Books & Art Always Bookstore, Ms. Carleton’s 2nd grade class at Jackson Street School for their help with our kid questions and reviews.